Growth and Perspectives: A Journey through Johnston County

Narrator: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of Best of Johnston County, brought to you by Breeden Law Office. Our host, Jonathan Breeden, an experienced family lawyer with a deep connection to the community, is ready to take you on a journey through the area that he has called home for over 20 years. Whether it’s a deep dive into the love locals have for the county or unraveling the complexities of family law, Best of Johnston County presents an authentic slice of this unique community.

jonathan_4_10-31-2023_140013-2: another edition of the Best of Johnston County Podcast. I’m your host, Jonathan Breeden. And I’m here today with my guest, Paul Flaherty.

Paul and I have been friends for the whole 23 years I’ve lived in Johnston County. And I think he’s going to have a lot of good things to say about Johnston County and what it’s like to build a business here. He’s been in commercial real estate for a long time. Welcome to the podcast, Paul. Thank you very much.

Thanks for having me. No problem. No problem. Let’s sort of start with, just tell everybody a little bit about your background, [00:01:00] where you work who do you work with, who you’re, who the clients you like to work with. That’s a long list there. Let me, I’ll start with I grew up in Sanford, which is south of Raleigh, south of Cary.

Moved here in 1998 started with Forex Bank in their mortgage department, and then around 2004 got into commercial real estate over at Hometown Realty. We created a commercial division just named it HTR Commercial. So have been in commercial real estate and invested in real estate since, well, well before 2004.

But, that’s the main gist of the work side of things and just so yeah. Right. So, yeah, I mean, you’ve been with I guess. It’s Barry Woodard and James Lipscomb, everybody in Johnson County knows you’re not, you know, you’re not in Johnson County long if you don’t know James Lipscomb and Barry Woodard, two of the, two of the nicest people you will ever meet.

And so you went to work with [00:02:00] him in 2004. When I met you, you were with Four Oaks Bank and you were doing mortgages and stuff like that. And I think you and Barry helped develop one of the neighborhoods around here. Yeah, and along with James, Carriage Creek, and I’ve been involved in a small way in two or three of them, but James Lipscomb has been the head person, and I’ve just basically been learning from him from a development standpoint of view.

I got you. Well, that’s cool. So so yeah, so, so you so it was Forbes Bank that brought you to Johnston County. It was in the mortgage department. I was very fortunate that At the time, it was amazing, because rates were around 9%, and at that time, that was great, that was 1998, and so, by 2004, rates have come down to about 6%, and at that time, it was unheard of, 6%, you know.

Had not been [00:03:00] around. Well, not in my lifetime. It had been around, right? So, at that point Walmart had just come to the Clayton area and I had always wanted to get into commercial real estate. So I knew at some point in time, I was going to jump ship and get into commercial real estate. So I thought, all right, now’s the time because.

A national brand had come to Clayton, so it felt like that was kind of putting Clayton on the map and and kind of Johnson County to a certain extent on the map. So I decided to jump ship here again, thinking 6 percent interest rate was the refiles are done. Purchase is going to slow down. I mean that tells you what kind of foresight I had to know that.

Rates would get down all the way to two point something. Right, right. And now we’re up to seven percent and people freaking out and I mean we were just there not, you know.

Jonathan Breeden: So you and I have both been here. You’ve been here 25 years. I’ve been 23 years. What has been the most surprising thing about Johnston County?

Paul: Well, [00:04:00] like you said, the growth, it’s, I can’t imagine growing up here, leaving, going off for 20, 25 years and then coming back and riding around and riding down 42, crossing over 40, and then seeing the hospital.

And all the other thing, and all the other apartments, you know, 300 unit apartments, all the townhouses, all the other restaurants, and I, downtown really has not necessarily gotten larger, downtown Clayton has not necessarily gotten larger, but it is amazing how the flowers plantation area is unbelievably nice and the Riverwood area is really nice too.

So it’s just, if you take those areas, Thank you. The 4042 area, the Riverwood and the Flowers area, the growth is just phenomenal.

Jonathan Breeden: Yeah, it’s unbelievable. I think in 1990, there were 60, 000 people in Johnston County or something. And now there’s 250, 000 people in Johnston County depending on what census you’re looking at.

It [00:05:00] really is, and I came here because I saw the potential. I saw the growth that was coming, what was happening with Raleigh. And I didn’t want to be in Raleigh. I wanted to be on the outsource. I’m from a small town. I’m from Laurenburg, North Carolina. It was just like, you’re from Sanford and Laurenburg, very similar.

But I wanted to be close to Raleigh with all the things that offers and be me being a huge Wolfpack fan and stuff like that. That was one of the reasons I came here. But I don’t think I had any idea. I don’t know if anybody did that, continue to grow like this at this pace and it’s not slowing down.

Paul: Well a big part of this is the, we’re very fortunate to be where we are in the United States. I mean, North Carolina is a great state and the area, the triangle area is a great area. So we’re very fortunate from that standpoint of view. There’s still some poor areas in the state of North Carolina, and there’s some areas in the United States that aren’t really doing real well.

So we’re very lucky. That we’ve got the businesses that are [00:06:00] moving here. And then just the climate that we’ve got as far as the weather’s normally good. So it’s usually not too terribly hot and usually not too terribly cold. So I think given all those factors and specifically here, we’re not far from the beach and we’re not that terribly far from the mountain.

So we’re just, we’re real, real lucky. And it just you know, in a lot of ways we’re very lucky.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, and we also have the intersection of. Arguably the two biggest interstates in the United States intersecting here with I 40 and I 95, and we’re sort of halfway between Miami and New York, and we’re right in that area, whether it’s here or Lumberton or whatever, depending on which part of the cities you’re going or starting from.

That’s a part of it too. One of the things I think has helped with the growth is, I think this county has been extremely well managed. I think we’ve had very good County commissioners. We’ve had the same county manager for a long time. And Rick haster. And I think they’ve done a pretty good job [00:07:00] of seeing where it’s going and trying to get us there.

I think they’ve all been a little surprised too, but I think that is, I think that has helped that, that they’ve had a plan. I mean, 40, 42, a little bit of a mess with too many entrances onto the road and a fair number of crashes. But you know, that was in the mid nineties, they weren’t real sure what they were doing.

But now with the new intersection, the DOT is building up here. I just think good management of over by the County over the years has helped.

Paul: I agree 100%. It is a very difficult thing to manage. Growth in a good way and I think they’ve done a very good job.

It’s not easy. I’m glad to see also that they’re putting a lot more focus on higher density inside of the municipalities so that we can save more open space. I’m also glad to see that they’ve finally gotten to where they want to have some parks where they’ve got somebody in charge of doing parks [00:08:00] now.

So I, I think. They’ve been doing really good and it looks like that the future is going to be good there too.

Jonathan Breeden: Yeah, I’m excited about what’s coming. They’ve you know, they’ve kept our tax rates fairly low. They just did a 4 cent tax cut last year. I think the commissioners have done a pretty good job of funding the schools they gave the schools.

Like 90 million or something in local financing last year, which is a big chunk of the local budget. I think that’s all positive. I think the commissioners in the school board are getting along, which I think also helps that’s not always been the case of politics get involved and everything else.

So what are some of the things that you see you’re on the horizon here for Johnson County? Any projects that you’re well, we got districts getting ready to happen. I know you’re not directly involved in that, but you know, some of the players maybe talk a little bit about that.

Well,

Paul: I don’t know a whole lot of the details, but I do know that’s really going to take that whole area to another [00:09:00] level and really. It’s going to take the town of Clayton to another level. Now, at this point, Flowers Plantation area, I think it’s one of the nicest areas with Harris Teeter and Publix and everything like they’re out there.

But I think that this will rival that area and you know, have an access to the hospital and have an access to, they’re going to put some office space out there and there’s no telling how many well, and also a nice hotel, but there’s also no telling how many nice restaurants will probably come out there.

So we’re, I just think it’s going to be a wonderful thing and it will be part of the continued growth that, that we’re seeing

Jonathan Breeden: in the county. And for those listening who have never heard of Is it is penny or is it copper? It’s copper. It’s copper. My bad. Excuse me. Copper penny. It’s the copper district.

The penny family

Paul: is the one that’s it. Where the, who owned the original farm. I mean, it’s grown from that standpoint of view, but and a gentleman named Dean penny is the one who’s headed up from John [00:10:00] Cain’s firm.

Jonathan Breeden: So, okay. Right. So it’s the copper district. And for those of y’all listening, not heard about it, this is going to be a huge mixed use development.

Similar to North Hills that is going to be at 42 and the 70 bypass, which is going to become the I 42 and not be called the 70 bypass here before too long. And it’s going to be right there where the hospital is and all of the, there’s a nursing home and all of that. And that’s going to be, that’s going to be unbelievable.

And the copper district is going to have 10 story buildings. I think I heard possibly 10

Paul: stories there when the original concept came out and here again, I don’t know any more than what’s public knowledge and what’s talked about at the county commissioners meetings and stuff like that. But, you know, originally, I think when they were conceptually laying this out was before COVID and before.

Office before true. So I’m, [00:11:00] not real sure if they’ve gone back to the drawing board yet to have less office space, right? I could be wrong. I just know a lot’s changed since their original concept, but at the end of the day Yes In time, I’m sure there will be, the tallest buildings in Johnston County will be out there.

Right. Because right now, I guess you got a three story hospital, and I would think that, whatever’s going to go on over there, because I think they have up to like 300 acres now. They’ve acquired additional land around there. Okay. There’s some. So, that’s the great thing that the county is starting to recognize.

Hey, let’s start letting these municipalities go up instead of out. And that is great. Here again, that’s part of smart growth. And I’m glad

Jonathan Breeden: to see it. Yeah, it’s really interesting. And of course, when you think about the growth, the as we sit here at 4042 recording this at my office, you know, , they’re expanding this intersection.

They’re building a whole new exit off of I 40. I think they’re going to call it 312B. I think it’s going to be, I think my ways is now telling me that the sole exit is [00:12:00] 312A, , which makes me think that the Cleveland road exit, which they are

That should be opening up. I mean, we’ll see what the weather, but possibly,

And then they’ve already got the 2 bridges over I 40 completed and then they’ll be able to sort of complete that diverging diamond that they’ve got that is going to be there and then, you know, The 540 is coming along and it’s going to be completed in the next year. I’ve seen a lot of different dates, but I’ve seen January of 25.

I’ve seen August of 24, either way we’re within 15 to 18 months of that leg of 540 being completed. And you know, that’s going to make. Garner inside the BeltLine, sort of ITB and that’s kind of hard to believe and I like Garner and spend a lot of time over there. I know you do too. But it’s like none of this is going, all this is [00:13:00] gonna do is just keep feeding it as people continue to move to Johnston County.

Paul: Yeah. When you create easy access to RTP and where the jobs are. It’s easier for people to expand farther out to where they want to live. So it’s just going to open up the Smith field and all the way, you know, Benson and down 95, even a little bit further, maybe even on the meadow. A lot of these people are going to see the growth that they don’t want.

I mean, the four oaks is the meadows and. I don’t know about Newton Grove, but anyway, a lot of people don’t get excited. I mean, around here, people have not been excited in the past 20 years, which goes back to the county commissioners. You know, they’ve done a great job because I’m sure they’ve had, I’m sure they’ve heard it from their fellow peers that when they go out to eat and stuff like that, hey, why don’t you slow down the growth?

Right. But anyway. It’s yes, it is making the roads easier access to get into the jobs is just going to create more growth in our [00:14:00] area.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, and, we sort of think about it out here, but there’s a lot of other growth points in this county right now, with the this, the.

70 and 95 with the old North state food hall and that entire development by adventure development with industrial space and it’s going to have some housing components to it as well. I mean, that’s going to completely transform Selma as well. Pine level, I think has gone to like maybe at least.

The last I heard, we’re talking about maybe putting a moratorium on approving new neighborhoods, because they approved so many new neighborhoods in Pine Level, and they’ve got to figure out what they’re going to do about sewer and police and all of that. And a town like Pine Level could easily double in the next 10 years.

Wilson’s mills is growing crazily. They’re working on the bypass there to turn 70 into the interstate. They’re getting a high school here in the next two or three years. I think they’re going to call it Wilson’s mills high school. [00:15:00] So I mean, it’s going to happen whether we like it or not.

People want to live in Johnston County. People want to live in the triangle and we need to make it as good a place as it can be. And I think ultimately it benefits, I think it benefits everybody. Cause you’re not going to stop it. It’s a free world. People can live where they want to live.

This is a desirable location with desirable weather. We have a great transportation system, pretty good schools, access to everything you would want in Raleigh. We’re getting more and more restaurants out here.

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Jonathan Breeden: Speaking of that, what are some of your favorite restaurants here in Johnston County?

Paul: Well, I enjoy Simple Twist and I enjoy [00:16:00] La piazza a lot.

So those are my main two staples around here. And I wear Jersey Mike’s out for lunch. Way too much. So, in downtown Clayton, I love Clayton Steakhouse, Manny’s. They’ve done a great job with downtown Clayton on the restaurants down there. And Smithfield’s got a lot of good vibe going down there with their stuff.

And just like you said, Selma. I think I just read where they have got another brewery that’s coming in and there’ll probably be some kind of restaurant tied into that. So, I’m with you in the next, I think, five to seven years, Selma’s going to be drastically different than it is right now.

Downtown, the architectural Look for Selma and Smithfield downtown to me is really neat. I just think those both those downtowns are really neat.

Jonathan Breeden: I agree and some are with the antiques and its walkability and the guy with the ice cream and the popcorn. And I mean, really, if the people listening have not been to [00:17:00] downtown Selma, you really should go.

It is. It’s definitely worth the trip as is downtown Smithfield. Of course, I go to downtown Smithfield all the time with the courthouse being an attorney, but downtown Selma is neat. And I enjoy Manning’s and Clayton’s Steakhouse and Crawford’s cook shop there in downtown Clayton. I mean, that was a big thing, I think, for Clayton to get somebody of the quad.

I mean, Scott Crawford is a nationally known chef. I mean, he is a phenomenal entrepreneur, phenomenal chef. And for him to choose Clayton for a restaurant, people line up trying to get a Crawford restaurant and for Clayton to get one, a few years ago was great and he’s a good guy and he’s built a tremendous business there along with Manning’s and everything else.

And they’ve got the Front Street Tavern now and so there’s really no reason for people.

You know, breweries, you know, like we’re slowly, but surely becoming a location. The North state food hall has got some tremendous restaurants in it. So I would encourage anybody listening to this to [00:18:00] go in and search out these places and visit them and support the local community. As far as that, sir, because I’ve enjoyed it and Simple Twists is a great restaurant.

And hopefully, maybe we’ll be able to have the owner, Colleen Robey, on this podcast in a few weeks. So anyway, well, I guess we’ll start to sort of wrap this up. So what do you see? I guess, what has you sort of excited? And we’ve talked about the growth, the good and the bad, but what kind of has you excited about?

Moving forward, whether it’s with your business, with HDR commercial, living in Johnston County, what has you excited about the next couple of years?

Paul: Oh, man. I guess personally, my kids will be finishing up high school and moving on to college, and then just trying to figure out the next phase of my life with my wife and what all we, you know, it’s time for us to start doing more adventure stuff, so we might be spending more time outside of Johnson County than inside of Johnson County once that starts happening, but I am looking forward to the continued growth and

I feel like [00:19:00] that with the county commissioners and each one of the municipalities all working together that it all stays smart growth because that’s really what we need and I do get excited also about the triangle and all the great things that are happening in Raleigh, and I just hope we can do.

I hope we can stay smart, keep crime low, and keep the schools good, like you were saying, because I think that’s kind of what will keep our growth going. And if we mess up those areas, then it’s really going to give us, it’s going to hurt. And as long as we can keep those in line, then, The future should be bright for us.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, great. Well, if anybody that’s listening to this is interested in how to reach out to you and HDR commercial, what’s the best way to do that?

Paul: Just give me a call. 919 795 4287

Jonathan Breeden: anytime. All right. Or hdrcommercial. com. Yep.

Paul: He looks up through there to you and access

Jonathan Breeden: email through there. All right, that’s awesome.

All right, that’ll be it for today’s [00:20:00] episode of Best of Johnston County. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, make sure that you like or subscribe. To wherever you’re listing this podcast now so that you’ll be notified when the next episodes of best of Johnson County are posted. You never know who you might hear next.

We’ve got a lot of great guests coming on here in the next few weeks. And we don’t want you to miss it. Thanks a lot.

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That’s the end of today’s episode of Best of Johnston County, a show brought to you by the trusted team at Breeden Law Office. We thank you for joining us today and we look forward to sharing more interesting facets of this community next week. Every story, every viewpoint adds another thread to the rich tapestry of Johnston County.

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