Jonathan Breeden: [00:00:00] On this week’s episode of The Best of Johnston County Podcast, we have a special edition. We call Ask Jonathan Breeden Anything. And in this episode, myself and Raena Burch discuss custody during the school year. Extracurricular activities for children, different visitation schedules during the school year.
The difference between what happens during the school year when you have a custody order and when you don’t, and can you just go and unilaterally change your child’s school. So if you’ve ever thought about these questions about what would happen during custody or a separation during school, this podcast may answer those questions for you.
So listen in.
Welcome to another episode of Best of Johnston County, brought to you by Breeden Law Office. Our host, Jonathan Breeden, an experienced family lawyer with a deep connection to the community, is ready to take you on a journey through the area that he has called home for over 20 years. Whether it’s a deep dive into the love locals have for the county or unraveling the complexities of family law, Best of Johnston County [00:01:00] presents an authentic slice of this unique community.
Jonathan Breeden: Hello and welcome to another edition of The Best of Johnston County Podcast. I’m your host, Jonathan Breeden, and on today’s episode, we’re having a special edition episode that we call Ask Jonathan Breeden Anything.
Normally I, Jonathan Breeden interview, interesting community leaders elected officials, small business owners in the Johnston County area about what they love about Johnston County and what brought them here and the businesses they provide. But every once in a while we do these special edition episodes called Ask Jonathan Breeden Anything where I, Jonathan Breeden answer questions from our social media coordinator, Raena Burch, about different things that relates to family law.
And that’s what we do here at the Breeden Law Office. We practice family law. Today’s episode is gonna be about custody in the school year and how custody may change during the school year, and different things you can do to make the school year go better for you, your child, and your former partner if you’re in a custody situation.
Ready to go, Raena?
Raena Burch: I’m ready if [00:02:00] you are.
Jonathan Breeden: Okay. I’m ready.
Raena Burch: All right. First question. How should parents handle custody arrangements for an upcoming school year or the new school year, how does, how does that change things?
Jonathan Breeden: Well, it all starts as we often answer these question is. Do you have a court order signed by a judge or not?
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: If you have a court order signed by a judge, then the court order is going to almost certainly address visitation during the school year and visitation in the summer. So you would go to the court order and whatever it says you have, you have, and you have to do what the judge ordered. You know, oftentimes, nowadays it’s 50 50 and it could be week on, week off, or, or.
2, 2, 3. Monday, Tuesday, mom, Wednesday, Thursday, dad, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, mom. Monday. Tuesday. Dad, you know, the sort of rotating,
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: 2, 2, 3, schedule. There’s week on, week off. I mean,
Raena Burch: for older kids there’s 2, 2, 5,
Jonathan Breeden: Right? There’s 2, 2 5, which is every Monday, Tuesday. Mom, every Wednesday, Thursday, dad and every other, Friday, Saturday, [00:03:00] Sunday.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: For the different parents. So the weekend attaches to the weekday, so it would be in week one, Monday and Tuesday. Mom. Wednesday and Thursday, dad, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday of week two, mom.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: Those five in a row.
Raena Burch: Yep.
Jonathan Breeden: And then dad would get five Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: Uh, As the weekdays attached to the weekends. And so you end up in a, so what we call 2, 2, 5, 5 scenario. And then there’s, there’s 2, 2, 3, where you’re constantly rotating every, and that’s for smaller children.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: And then for. Older children. I think we can Only golf is better.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: They can go longer without seeing the other parent I mean, judges, and
Raena Burch: it’s just a, it’s just a lot less back and forth for the kids.
Jonathan Breeden: Right, right.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: So, but if it’s not some sort of shared custody like that
Raena Burch: mm-hmm
Jonathan Breeden: then oftentimes, even if you’re not 50 50 during the school year, a court is going to make it. 50 50 during the summer. So oftentimes, even if you’re only [00:04:00] getting every other weekend it’s not unusual for a judge to say, we’re gonna do week, all week off in the summer.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: Traditional summers are anywhere from 10 to 12 weeks, so you’re gonna get five to six weeks of time in a traditional school calendar, summer with the child. And of course there’s the. if the parents are not living near each other, then the non-custodial parent would get six or seven or eight of those 10 or 11 weeks
Raena Burch: mm-hmm
Jonathan Breeden: in the summer.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: So you’re gonna do what the court order says, whatever the court order says about what the visitation will be during the school year. Is what you’re gonna follow. If you don’t have a court order, then you know it’s got back to what you and the other parent can agree to.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: And, you know, whatever y’all can agree to that you think works best for the child during the school year is what you’re going to do. And if you can’t agree, ultimately you need to come hire an attorney, go to court, get an order signed by a judge that somebody can’t just change because. They’re upset, upset, upset, or their feelings are hurt or whatever, to deny you as a [00:05:00] child.
Because, because a routine is important for all children.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: Your routine’s important for their parents as well, and the parent and the child, and also the school. Which bus are they riding? Are they riding a bus? Are they being picked up? Are they being dropped off? All of that. The school needs to know as well
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: How it’s gonna be, whether it’s by court order or by verbal agreement so that they know what to expect so they can serve the child.
Raena Burch: Exactly. And you know, like you said, they probably before, preferably before the school year starts, address drop offs, pickups parent teacher conferences, volunteering for.
For field trips, you know, are you gonna, are you gonna take turns? Is one person gonna do, is the other per, like, how does that, like, try to address those things before the school year starts so that when things come up, you already have a plan or an agreement or, you know, something we’ve talked about.
Jonathan Breeden: Right. If you’re, if you’re, if you’re able to communicate, which we hope you can,
Raena Burch: yes
Jonathan Breeden: that’s important. Of course, you don’t always know when the field trips are gonna be and you know, are you in a position to take off work or whatever. But. But yeah, I think it’s important. Once again, as I say, in all of these [00:06:00] episodes, it’s all about communication.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: And communicating proactively, positively. From a neutral position, not from an attacking position.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: Not, you know, assume that the other side wants what’s best for the child. Just like you want what’s best for the child, and communicate appropriately that way.
Raena Burch: Absolutely. All right, next question.
So what happens if one parent wants to change the child’s school or educational setting?
Jonathan Breeden: Okay, again, there’s two answers. Is there a court order signed by a judge and is there not a court order signed by a judge? If it’s a court order signed by a judge, then you’re almost certainly gonna have joint legal custody.
You see joint legal custody in probably 95% of all cases where each side gets an equal say in where the child is going to school and how the child’s gonna be schooled, whether it should be homeschooled. Public school. Private school.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: Parochial school, whatever it’s gonna be. So, you know, so if the [00:07:00] child has been in school, then there obviously has been an agreement because the child has been going to a school.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: If one parent wants to change that and there’s a court order and the other parent doesn’t agree, then they’ve gotta go to court and file a motion to modify the custody order or to get the court to declare that the child can then move schools.
And that this move to whatever school they wanna move it to is in the best interest of the child.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: If they try to do that without asking if there is a court order, or even if there is not you know, you can, the other side can go and file for. A restraining order if they find out about it to where they could file and ask for the court to enter a restraining order, keeping the parent from removing the child from the child’s school until the court can make a determination.
You could do that even if there’s not a court order, like you can file a complaint for custody. And immediately put a, a temporary restraining order motion in it and get a court to stop somebody from doing it. We’re [00:08:00] actually, as we’re recording this at the end of March, we’re actually doing that today.
Raena Burch: Oh, wow.
Jonathan Breeden: Here in my office of the Breeden Law Office in a case where the parties have recently separated, the mother has moved to Raleigh and is trying to take the kid out of Riverwood Elementary School and take the kid to some school in Raleigh. There is no custody agreement. They have just broken up in the last three weeks.
And we’re gonna seek a restraining order to keep the kid at Riverwood until the court can make a custody determination
Raena Burch: Yeah,
Jonathan Breeden: and determine where the child should go to school. So if you don’t have a custody order, as in the case we’re talking about, the other case, you can file for a custody order immediately can file for a complaint, get a lawyer, and try to get a restraining order that way, if not.
It’s gonna be up to whether the school actually, who the school listens. If there’s not a court order and it doesn’t say who has custody. The question is, does the school listen to mom or does the school listen to dad if the parents don’t agree? Yeah. And you know, in that scenario, you need to get an attorney and you need to get a court order quickly
Raena Burch: yeah
Jonathan Breeden: [00:09:00] if you do not wanna see that child’s school changed.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: We do do a fair number of hearings every July and August on where is the child gonna go to school?
Raena Burch: I bet.
Jonathan Breeden: And often that involves the parents having moved from the original order.
Raena Burch: Mm.
Jonathan Breeden: Or a, the child is in private school and now one parent has decided they can’t afford it.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: And they want to see the child go to public school, and then the other parent really wants to keep the kid in private school and see. And so we go and have that hearing with the judge. We had a hearing this past August of 24 and the choice was between whether the child was gonna be homeschooled or the child was gonna go to a charter school.
And the parents had different opinions on that, so
Raena Burch: yeah
Jonathan Breeden: so, but courts do make those decisions when the parents cannot agree on where the kids go to school. But I would say you can’t just go unilaterally if the other parent is involved. If they’re visiting and they’re involved, you know where they are.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: And there isn’t a court order, I still don’t think it can just unilateral to go move the school. Without [00:10:00] talking to the other parent, you know, because you never know, you may end up in a court battle that you could have avoided if you could have had a conversation.
Raena Burch: Yes. And for, you know, listeners listening or people watching when you say, you know, go immediately and go get this restraining order, get a temporary custody, just they should know that it’s temporary for the time being until.
If you are newly separated,
Jonathan Breeden: right? Well
Raena Burch: then you go get a permanent one,
Jonathan Breeden: right? Well, right. If, if you ha if you end up getting a restraining order or, you know, sometimes we have to be in emergency custody ’cause the child’s in danger. The child’s been taken outta state
Raena Burch: Yeah
Jonathan Breeden: somewhere else. It’s only good for 10 days.
So there’s going to be a return hearing and the, and the court is going to address it fairly quickly.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: But you know, the court is gonna need to address it because. You know, in this situation, mom was at the school yesterday trying to remove the children.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: So we need to try to get an order today
Raena Burch: Now. Yeah
Jonathan Breeden: to stop that.
Raena Burch: Yep.
Jonathan Breeden: And then there would be a return hearing within two weeks, and then everybody could have their say.
Raena Burch: Yep.
Jonathan Breeden: And the court could say, okay, we’re gonna, I’m [00:11:00] almost certain the court is gonna leave the child at school for this year, and then we’ll have a custody hearing over the summer.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: And the court will decide where the child’s gonna go to school next year. Sometime over the summer, that is probably what’s gonna happen. You never know.
Raena Burch: You never know.
Jonathan Breeden: But, but I mean, there are things you can do to try to stop the kid from, from being removed
Raena Burch: Yes
Jonathan Breeden: from school.
Raena Burch: Yep. All right, next question.
So how can parents modify their, ’cause? We kind of touched on this already, but how else can parents modify their agreement to reflect the school year? You know, do they again, like if they don’t have an order, they communicate with each other. Judge, can they do a consent order instead of going to a judge?
Like how does that work?
Jonathan Breeden: Right, if you have a court order signed by a judge, you file that court order until it is modified and you get a new court order. If you do not have a court order signed by a judge, then it really comes back to the same thing, communicating with the other parent, seeing if y’all can get on the same page about where the child’s gonna go to school.
What type of school it’s gonna be, [00:12:00] how it’s gonna be paid for. Now, there are opportunity scholarships in North Carolina where the state is paying for a lot of private schools that it wasn’t paying for before. So that opens up new things but you know, the other thing that becomes important is how’s the child gonna get to and from school?
Do the work schedules of both parents allow them to get to and from school? Is there bus service? Charter schools don’t offer lunch. How, you know, are they gonna be able to afford? Lunch for the child, what kinda lunches is that gonna be? Yeah. Is somebody gonna send lunch for the child? Who’s gonna pick the child up if the child sick? Depending on whose day it is.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: I mean, all of these things have to be worked out among the parents. If you don’t have a court order, if you have a court order, all of this stuff’s usually addressed in the court order.
Raena Burch: Hopefully. Hopefully.
Jonathan Breeden: But you don’t. Right. But if you don’t have a court order. Once again, this is all about communication and seeing what y’all can agree to or not agree to.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: And, and ultimately do what’s, what’s best for the child.
Raena Burch: And I do know from personal experience, a lot of it largely depends on whose address the child uses on their school of record. So if it’s your [00:13:00] address and you’re the one you know, with the busing and the transportation and the bus stop, they’re going to assign you the bus route for your child to that address. But if your parent lives still within the school zone, but at a different address I know I’ve had to wait a month or more for them to add that second bus route, bus stop or whatever to my child’s plan basically because they said, Nope, we need a month to just get through all the first, all of the bus stops that we need to do now.
Jonathan Breeden: Right.
Raena Burch: And then we can start adding in more. But for now, we need a month to just figure everything out first and then add in.
Jonathan Breeden: Right. Well, the other thing that happens is, you know, a lot of these school change things we, we were talking about earlier. S nobody’s left in the school district.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: Right. And now of all these cap schools and Johnston Harney and Wake counties, you can’t just stay when everybody has moved out of that district.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: And so then the question is, and it, you know, and, and the [00:14:00] majority of the time, if you have a primary custodian and it’s not joint, and both parties have left the school district, the school district is gonna be the one districted to the primary parent’s address.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: If it’s 50 50, that’s a different game because then it’s what, which rest are we gonna use?
Raena Burch: Yep.
Jonathan Breeden: But it, it is not uncommon today with school districts changing and all that for both parties to not live in the school district anymore. And then there has to be a decision made on where the child is gonna go to school.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: And you know, and if the primary parent needs the bus and the bus only goes to their district at school, even if you go to court, they’re probably gonna go with that primary parent’s address over the secondary parent’s address because that primary parent’s gonna need that bus more than the secondary.
The secondary parent at under this area is not even the district, any district anyway. And so they’re not gonna be able to use the bus to start with.
Raena Burch: Yes. Yeah, exactly. All right. Next question and you already touched on this, but can I [00:15:00] make decisions about my child’s school or extracurricular activities?
So after school, sports clubs, stuff like that. Without consulting the other parent.
Jonathan Breeden: Again, do you have a court order signed by a judge or not? Yeah. If you have a court order signed by a judge, it will address extracurricular activities and stuff like that. As a general rule, if you do not have a court order signed by a judge, you can do the extracurricular activities and even sometimes if you have a court order signed by a judge but it cannot infringe on the other parents’ custodial time.
So if you have a court order or signed by judge and this activity is on Tuesday afternoons and you have every Tuesday afternoon. Most of the time the other parent’s not gonna be able to object to it, but in all of these joint situations, no activity is just gonna be on one parent’s time.
No. Right. And so you really do have to have a discussion about what the activities are gonna be. [00:16:00] The court will not, particularly if you’re in a situation where you have a court order and the other parent is only getting say, every other weekend, which is rare now, but they still exist, the court is not going to allow the primary parent to put the kid in extracurricular activity and require the noncustodial parent
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm
Jonathan Breeden: to bring the child to that activity on there every other weekend. If that parent chooses to do it, fine, but
Raena Burch: they don’t have to
Jonathan Breeden: if he doesn’t have to. So if your kid plays soccer every Saturday and the non-custodial parent and, and that non-custodial parent does not have 50 50 or anywhere near 50 50, they just have other weekend they’re not gonna have to bring that child on their Saturday back to where you live to play soccer, the child is just gonna miss half the games. So, but in most joint custodial situations, particularly if you have a court order, so by a judge, the court is going to address, each child can have one activity and the parties are gonna split the cost of that activity and the parties are gonna get the child to that [00:17:00] activity.
Because in a joint custody situation, if you don’t have that in the order and the parties don’t agree, then the child can do no activities because or they can only do half of an activity. Yeah. You know, I’ve, we’ve got one, we’ve, we’ve got a week on, week off case right now where the child is in karate, juujitsu, and one parent just refuses to take the child to karate, jiujitsu, or whatever it is.
And so the parent, the child only goes every other week, and that child can only go to competitions on the weekends with the parent. Who’s taking him because the other parent is refusing to participate and it, and refusing to pay for it. Even though there’s a court order, that’s another issue. But, but, so there is that.
And so you, you have to think about is the other parent gonna participate? How is that gonna affect the child? How’s that gonna affect the child’s relationship with the other parent? Why is the other parent choosing not to participate?
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: And see if you can’t work through that. And then I think you have to tell the [00:18:00] coaches.
When you sign up
Raena Burch: Yes
Jonathan Breeden: or you go to the draft.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: You know, you know, they wanna make the team’s evil. They have drafts. I think you have to disclose to everybody there with the organization, Hey, look, he’s, he or she is only gonna be at half the practices or half the games. If the other side is not willing to participate, you should consider that.
And whether you draft the child or whatever.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: And that is truly unfortunate. I think kids get a ton really of education, playing sports and doing extracurricular activities and be involved with other kids and, and all of that. But, you know, each parent’s got their own thing. And, you know, these, these sports now have gotten to be crazy expensive and the parents’ financial situations might, might not be the same.
Raena Burch: Yep.
Jonathan Breeden: And they may not be in a position to both afford these travel sports and all of that stuff, which have gotten to be crazy expensive. And I mean, the people spent. If they save for college, but they spend on travel sports, they could probably pay for college. I, I know I probably [00:19:00] have. You know, so, you know, so you have to think about that as well and you know, and is it fair to the child to be on a team if they can only get to half the practices and half the games?
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: Because that’s gonna affect their playing time, the ability to grow. And so you have to weigh all of these things. If you have a parent who’s just not going to cooperate at all.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: You know, and if you have an order that does not address extracurriculars and one parent is refusing all extracurriculars, you can file a motion to modify, go to court and get the court to enter an order that says each child gets one extracurricular per season that they get to participate in.
And it does have to be travel. I’m just talking about regular gymnastics.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: Regular dance, regular karate, you know, travel’s a whole nother thing. You will not see coaches, you will not see judges order parents to pay for travel sports and travel sports travel
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm
Jonathan Breeden: if they’re not willing to just agree.
Raena Burch: Yes. But Rec league,
Jonathan Breeden: rec league different, they’re, they’re all about rec leagues and
Raena Burch: you can miss [00:20:00] as many games as you want.
Jonathan Breeden: Right.
Raena Burch: And still go to the rec, you know?
Jonathan Breeden: Right.
Raena Burch: They, those coaches and whatnot.
Jonathan Breeden: Right, right. And,
Raena Burch: and they understand.
Jonathan Breeden: Right. And regular gymnastics, one night a week for $150 a month.
You know, that’s fine.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: Regular dance, not Not competitive dance. Not not competitive dance where you go to Myrtle Beach. Not competitive cheer. I’m talking about just, yes, regular rec level of this sports, regular dancing, that kind of stuff. Judges are all about, but they are not going to order a non-custodial parent or even a joint parent.
Who does not wanna pay for travel sports and the travel cost of travel sports.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: To pay for that.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: They’re only gonna do that if the parties agree. So if you wanna do it and the other side doesn’t wanna agree, then you need to be willing to pay for all of it.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: And that may include paying for the other parents’ hotel room.
For competitions that take place during that other parent’s custodial weekend.
Raena Burch: Yeah,
Jonathan Breeden: I’ve seen that. If it means that [00:21:00] much to you that the child do it, then you would have to make it possible for that other parent to be able to go and take the child. Yeah, during their custodial time to the competition.
Have family law questions? Need guidance to navigate legal challenges? The compassionate team at Breeden Law Office is here to help. Visit us at www. breedenfirm. com for practical advice, resources, or to book a consultation. Remember, when life gets messy, you don’t have to face it alone.
Raena Burch: Now what about school sponsored sports? ’cause like we’re talking about, you know, rec league, travel ball, this is all outside of school. What about football or school? School soccer or school cheerleading? How does that factor in?
Jonathan Breeden: You know, those sports are affordable and often, you know, they’re not completely free, but they don’t cost a ton of money.
Yeah.
Raena Burch: You usually pay for or something.
Jonathan Breeden: Right. But. Again, the court is not gonna make that non-custodial parent if that [00:22:00] non-custodial parent is an every other weekend or Thursday to Monday parent bring the child to that activity at the school during their time. That parent may live two hours, three hours away.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: So again, that child is gonna miss half the football games, half the basketball games. And if that’s the scenario, then they’re probably not gonna be able to be on that team.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: So again, you have, we, you know, I got tons of stories, right?
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: I had one. This past year with the band, the band has band camp in August.
It’s like a week or two, and it’s like eight to five and it’s really hot, but that’s how they learn their music and the basic steps of whatever band show they’re gonna put on.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: Well, I had a case where the parent would not bring the child to band camp. Well, if the child doesn’t come to band camp, then the child is behind.
The band was willing to work with the child because they understood where he was, but the [00:23:00] child didn’t think it was fair to the other high school band members for him to miss the camp and then ultimately miss half the games and possibly half the competitions because the other parent was not going to participate at all.
In the high school band.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: And that’s unfortunate
Raena Burch: it is
Jonathan Breeden: because that child really enjoyed high school band, but there was nothing he nor the custodial parent could do to convince the non-custodial parent to participate in the band at all.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: And so that child didn’t get to be in the band.
And that’s, and that’s a consequence of, of people breaking up and separation and divorce and, and that’s truly unfortunate, but there wasn’t anything I could do about it, I was not gonna be go get a judge to order this noncustodial parent to bring the child to this area. They lived an hour away five days in a row for band camp.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: I was not gonna get to convince a judge to bring that child to [00:24:00] every other home football game from an hour away. It just, if they didn’t wanna do it, yeah. It wasn’t gonna happen. And so the consequence was the child didn’t get to be in the van.
Raena Burch: That’s, that’s unfortunate. And, and you know, like you said, these, These particular extracurriculars might not cost as much, but they certainly almost always require much more of a time commitment than anything. You’re practicing pretty much every day after school, or like you said, you’re going to a certain camp in the summer. And it’s pretty much mandatory a lot of the times when they do that kind of thing.
Jonathan Breeden: But what I would say is. If you know you’re gonna have a problem, you know you’re gonna have a problem before you get to it. So before you commit to it, maybe you know, in this case, they met with the band director. The band director was willing to work with this child because he understood and wanted the child to be in the band.
The child ultimately determined that he didn’t think he was best for the rest of the band, given what he could do. But like you can work with these coaches. You can talk to them and let the coaches decide if they’re willing [00:25:00] to allow this child to participate. you know Even though they’re only gonna be there when they’re gonna be there.
These coaches are, they love kids. They’re human beings. They’re parents. And a lot of times they may be willing to allow the child to be on the team or be in the band. They may not have the same role, but they would be willing to let ’em be a manager. Mm-hmm. You know, stuff like that.
So that they could participate when they are available.
Raena Burch: Exactly. And you know. I think you would probably agree when I say this, but when you, ’cause you said communicate proactively, right? Try to talk it out before you reach this point. You know where it’s last minute, you’re trying to figure everything out.
Everybody’s stressed, nobody’s, you know that emotions are high. Maybe do it earlier on when everybody’s not as stressed and you can plan and all these things ahead of time. And if you do come to an agreement with the other parent. Get it in writing.
Jonathan Breeden: Yeah. It would be nice to, if you could get it in writing.
Raena Burch: You get it in writing.
Jonathan Breeden: you know, a court and you know, if you don’t have a court order, you get it in [00:26:00] writing. The court may give some weight to it.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: You know, why did you change your mind?
Raena Burch: Well, you can always get a consent order without having to go to court.
Jonathan Breeden: Right. Well that’s true. If you already have a court order, you wanna modify your court order, you can modify court order by consent at any time.
Raena Burch: Yep.
Jonathan Breeden: By filing a motion to getting an order entered.
Raena Burch: Yes. All right, last one. One of my co parent and I disagree about the school schedule or school related decisions. We’ve kind of already touched on this, but just one more time for the listeners.
Jonathan Breeden: Okay. Alright. So if you disagree on the school’s schedule. And you don’t have a court order. Well, if you have a court order, then you just follow the court order.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: Okay. Same thing I said every answer.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: And the majority of the people out there do not have a court order.
Raena Burch: Yeah, that’s true. That’s true.
Jonathan Breeden: So
Raena Burch: that’s true.
Jonathan Breeden: So that’s why we give two different answers, right?
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: But the vast majority of people. Do not have custody orders with the other parent. The vast majority of people have verbal agreements or handwritten contracts or whatever.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: But the answer does depend on whether you have one or not. If you have a court order signed by a judge, you have to do what the court order [00:27:00] says.
And if you don’t like where the child’s gonna school, you don’t like that school schedule. You can file a motion to ask the court to give you permission to change the child to a different school.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: As far as that’s concerned. What was the second part? School schedule or school?
Raena Burch: School. School related decisions.
Jonathan Breeden: School related decisions. Okay. If you don’t have a court order, then you’re presumed to have joint legal custody under the law. If you do have a court order, there’s a 95% chance you have joint legal custody. So it is very rare that people have a court order and it’s sole legal custody. So if you have joint legal custody, whether you have a court order or not, you have joint legal custody.
The court order says you have joint legal custody or you don’t have a court order, which means by default, if you’re on the birth certificate, you do have joint legal custody. If you’re not on the birth certificate, you need to get on the birth certificate, give Bredeen Law a call. We can help you do that.
So with that caveat, joint legal custody is you have the right to make decisions about your child’s education, medical, religion, and you have equal decision making power in that. If the two of you cannot [00:28:00] agree, then you would need to go get a court order and have the court decide.
You could keep joint legal, but every time you disagree, you would have to go to court and have the judge decide which way it’s going to be in a joint legal situation.
Now the court can. If there’s a lot, and it’s a high conflict case.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: The court can appoint a parenting coordinator and the parenting coordinator, which is often another lawyer who’s trained in this.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: And also sometimes psychologists and stuff like that,
Raena Burch: let’s say. Yeah. Sometimes.
Jonathan Breeden: Yeah. Right. To make these decisions for the parents on behalf of the court, the court doesn’t have time to make all the decisions these parents disagree on.
Raena Burch: Yeah, they, they can’t see you every week.
Jonathan Breeden: No. They can’t see you every week. And so, but the other thing the court will do if it looks like they just can’t agree other than appointed of parent coordinator is the court may say, okay.
It’s joint legal, but I’m gonna give one parent final decision making authority, which means the parents have to communicate, the [00:29:00] parents have to endeavor to agree, and if they can’t agree, one parent gets to make the decision, which in my mind is no longer joint legal custody.
Raena Burch: Yeah,
Jonathan Breeden: it really is sole custody because the other parent has to make the decision.
Raena Burch: Doesn’t matter what the other one says, I can still make those.
Jonathan Breeden: But with joint legal custody, you have access to the child’s medical records, to the child’s teachers, to the child’s school records, all of that. So you can get the report cards, you can do parent-teacher conferences. You don’t have to do parent teacher conferences with the other parent.
You can do your own parent teacher conference.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: You can get on Class Dojo and send cupcakes and all of that kinda stuff like, like you can do everything as far as that’s concerned. And so you know, but the other parent without a court order that says they have to give you this information doesn’t, so you have to be proactive and go get it.
You have to go to the court to go to the school with your driver’s license and the birth certificate, and they often have the birth certificate. Here’s my driver’s license. I am on this child’s birth certificate. I am a joint parent. I wanna be on the email list for, you know, bringing donuts, all that. I wanna [00:30:00] get the report card.
I want access to PowerSchool, where the grades are and whether they’re doing their homework.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: I wanna be invited to the individual education plan meetings if the child has an IEP and all of that. And the school has to do that, whether you have a court order or not. But you have to let the school know you exist, particularly if the other parent enrolled the child and maybe didn’t write your name down on the enrollment paperwork, which happens all the time.
Raena Burch: All the time.
Jonathan Breeden: And they didn’t put you as the emergency contact, and they put stepdad or new boyfriend as the, as the dad on the paperwork. Well, you’re not gonna know that if you don’t go to the school and look at the paperwork. What do the records say? You know, they need to know who you are. They didn’t know your address, they didn’t know your phone number.
Yep. All of that stuff is very important. And we see so many often dads not do that.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: And then they come in here and they’re like, I don’t have any information. I don’t know why they don’t have a court order. And the first thing we say is take your driver’s license to the school and get access to all the records and ask for a copy of the entire educational file.[00:31:00]
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: And then we’ll work from there. But you know, you’ve got to be proactively go do it. And we tell dad to do it and probably half of ’em still don’t. So, you know, like I said, it, it’s not particularly these high conflict cases, they’re not going to just give it to you. They don’t want you to have it.
They wanna hold it over your head.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: But like you can get it, but you’re gonna have to do something to go get it.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: And I think that’s important. And of course. I think everybody in any kind of high conflict case should get a court order side by judge that is clear as to where everybody’s supposed to be and what they’re supposed to do.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: I think that is better for both parents. I think it’s better for the children. But, you know, not everybody does that. They don’t wanna pay for it, but I think it’s worth doing if the communication is not good and it’s, and it’s a conflict. It’s a high conflict case.
Raena Burch: Absolutely worth doing. Worth doing right and worth doing right the first time.
Jonathan Breeden: Correct, correct. And make sure it is as detailed as possible.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: To cover as many scenarios as possible.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: Because if it’s, if you’ve got somebody, [00:32:00] if the other parent is trying to mess over the other parent, then they’re gonna try to find every way they can.
Every and all that does is hurt the child.
Raena Burch: Yes.
Jonathan Breeden: But they don’t see it that way.
Raena Burch: No.
Jonathan Breeden: And that is unfortunate, and I say it every time. If the child grows up and realizes that one parent was alienating them from the other parent and messing with the other parent. When they grow up and they get adult reasoning and they can decide, they almost never have a relationship with the parent who did it, or they have a limited relationship with the parent who did it, and they are completely bonded to the parent who got alienated and the parent who got messed with, and the parent who didn’t get the time they should have had.
And I see it over and over and over again. So if you’re a parent who’s trying to keep the child from the other parent. Or mess the other parent around about the time or not share the information with the other parent.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: Stop Because the child is gonna grow up and they’re gonna know what happened and they’re not going to like it and it’s, and it hurts the [00:33:00] child.
Raena Burch: Yeah.
Jonathan Breeden: If you’re criticizing the other parent. In any scenario, it’s like stabbing that child in the heart.
Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Breeden: Because that child is half the other parent. And while you may hate that other parent and you may hate his family and his new wife and everything about it, that parent is still that child’s father or that child’s mother.
And that is one of the two most important people in the entire world to that child. And to criticize him and put them down is like stabbing that child in the heart and hurting that child. And you do not wanna be hurting your child and you’re not accomplishing anything by doing it.
Raena Burch: Yes. And and same goes for, you know, like you said, communication and making sure of the other parents contact information is included for school, sports, stuff like that. Because if they miss a practice or if they miss a, a team party or if they miss a, you know, and the other parent just simply didn’t get the email or the text or whatever, ultimately who [00:34:00] misses out? The kid? Your kid, your kid misses out on that, right?
So that’s
Jonathan Breeden: no doubt
Raena Burch: that’s, that’s really what, you know, people should have in their minds when they are playing games.
Jonathan Breeden: Right. That’s true
Raena Burch: with the other parent.
Jonathan Breeden: That’s that’s true. Alright, well that’ll do it for this week’s episode of The Best of Johnston County Podcast, our special edition Ask Jonathan Breeden Anything where we talked about child custody in schools and education related matters.
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That’s the end of today’s episode of Best of Johnston County, a show brought to you by the trusted team at Breeden Law Office. We thank you [00:35:00] for joining us today and we look forward to sharing more interesting facets of this community next week. Every story, every viewpoint adds another thread to the rich tapestry of Johnston County.
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